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| Author | Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
 Jade Constantine    |
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:48:00 -
[1] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/08/2004 20:01:27 I will be as brief as I can ... but its a complex subject. 1. The Northern War began in truth, when Ragnar intrigued against Fountain and tried to hire mercenaries to assassinate FA personalities. The scheme misfired and FA declared war on the original Venal Alliance (VA). 2. Taggart became estranged from the mainstream VA over funding issues. The FA was clearly winning. FA offered the VA corps a way out if they ditched Taggart. VA council voted and opted not to ditch Taggart and to continue the war. Ragnar had a funny turn and donned his magic hat and declared all who had voted against Taggart in the minority to be ôtraitorsö. This behaviour shocked the council and a revote was held, this time ejecting Taggart and sparking the Venal civil war. 3. The sides were: Taggart Transdimensional, and all the unrepentant pirate corps of the north (Paladins of Red Skull, Space Invaders, and a couple of others) plus Scenites and M3G4 (who had been paid by Ragnar to intervene) Vs the NVA (which was an alliance of corporations swearing to reform and adopt a new freespace agenda and open system of government. Although initially outmatched, the NVA recruited and PRÆed its way to eventual victory by eliminating the Taggart side of the civil war. Taggart finally had an internal reshuffle and elected a new board, the leader of which agreed terms for the ending of hostilities and peaceful withdrawal from the north. 4. NVA knew peace for a little while, but soon tensions between its fighters and industrialists grew, and many of the reformed ex pirates wanted to go back to shooting innocents and picking fights. Worse yet the M3G4 pirate corp (though entirely destroyed in the civil war) reformed as Biomass and began to recruit NVA turncoats to strengthen its number. Many incidents occurred including the famous betrayal of Hupa who turned on his own friends and changed sides mid battle. A new war was inevitable and the NVA council moved to strike against Biomass and its backers in Geminate region. 5. NVA suffered from lack of coordination and poor fleet leadership and lost badly against Biomass in engagement after engagement. New combat corps were recruited to the NVA, but the tide was seemingly impossible to turn. Biomass forged an empire of sorts, and widened their sphere of influence into something called the Forsaken Empire which at its height included the last remnants of Space Invaders and some dozen other pirate corps. 6. Industrial powers in the NVA got tired of the constant fighting and eventually treated for terms with the Forsaken Empire, offering to put aside the past and unite the NVA and FE in an enduring union to ôdominate the northö. This angered and astonished many of the original NVA members (and recent recruits) and led to a great deal of strife and antagonism in the council chambers. Chief amongst the FE demands for the pact was that my corporation, Jericho Fraction, would have to be ejected from the NVA before peace could be signed. 7. Two days later many of the NVA industrial corps staged a coup and ejected Jericho Fraction from the alliance. There was no formal vote and many corporations of the old NVA were not consulted in any way. Reikoku Corporation opted not to stand for this backstabbing of an ally and so chose to leave immediately, other honourable corporations followed over the next few weeks. 8. The NVA was reformed under the direction of Halseth Durn primarily, who declared the new alliance would be called the Pheonix Alliance, and would be entirely free of past arrangements, pacts, agreements and treaties. Halseth declared the original NVA treaty a tired and lifeless failure and announced that the PA would be closed space territorial and trespassers would be shot on sight. 9. The first significance of this betrayal of past bargains was that PA closed access to Venal to Evolution Corporation (that had played a role in freeing the north from Taggart alliance during the civil war). This was seen as a great affront (which it was) to Evolution, and a new war raged for a time with PA paying a heavy price for this erasure of past agreements. 10. While the Evolution war occupied front-page news PA made a NAP agreement with the FE and acknowledged the rights of the Biomass-descended FE corps to hold and run Tribute, Vale and Geminate as they so chose. 11. Meanwhile Reikoku corporation had been joined by better allies from NORAD and ex PA corps and set about fighting the FE in the north in earnest. This war raged from Fade to Deklein and then finally back to Tribute and Vale and ended in the effective destruction of the FE (through inactivity and formal defeat in combat) and the establishment of friendly alliances in the former FE holdings. -cont JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:48:00 -
[2] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/08/2004 20:11:37 12. By this point the Evolution offensive against PA had come to an inconclusive end (with PA having been hit hard but not driven from its home) and Evolution went elsewhere to fight Curse and their allies in the south. 13. Halseth and the PA changed tact in the north and declared a new ôsuper allianceö structure called the NAST treaty, which was designed to be a free space pact for the regions outside of Venal. The other northern alliances were invited to join but no invitation was made to individual corporations. PA through NAST laid claim to Tribute and the former FE holdings (pleased that their NAP with FE had been effectively rendered null by the Reikoku and alliesÆ victory in the regions). 14. For a time there was peace and relationships were warming (even between Jericho Fraction and Pheonix Alliance). But a series of incidents and problems began to occur which had the appearance of Reikoku being targeted by the PA in various underhand tactics. Endless diplomacy occurred, and many many hours of talks passed in voice communications and debate, yet still the tension rose and tempers flared and ships and lives were taken. 15. What the flashpoint was is hotly debated (as indeed is the motive). I personally believe that some PA corporations resented NAST, resented Reikoku and Jericho Fraction, and wanted ownership of the conquerable stations in Tribute for glory and boasting rights. I believe these interests came to stage ôissuesö and ôconfrontationsö and played a great part in upping the tension. It was also very obvious that the PA was using the NAST treaty as a ôdivide and ruleö mechanism, being at great pains to tell FU and COD alliances that they would be in breach of treaty if they aided their old allies Reikoku in any future conflict with the PA. 16. Then CDI Corporation (PA) was caught doing some foolish things. (These fully detailed on RKK and NCA forums û the list is quite long). PA diplomats Halseth, Robeyone and KIAINKZ fully accepted that CDI was in the wrong, and gave their personal assurances and promises in voice communication that if CDI made *any* future infraction of its parole terms (stringently agreed by all present) then CDI would be ejected from the PA (or RONA, RONA-KIA and Oberon would themselves leave). This satisfied the allied powers and peace seemed likely once again. 17. CDI broke the parole. PA failed to keep its word. War began. 18. In the months past people have chosen sides and most have chosen to stand with their friends. ReikokuÆs old allies joined the NCA against the PA, and the PA have been joined by the latest incarnation of the M3G4/Biomass/Foresaken Empire, in the resurgent Pirate Syndicate. Evolution returned to the war in the north to settle unfinished business and brought their allies of Moo Corporation to fight with them. PA called for aid from the Curse Alliance (long enemies of Moo and Evo) and a smallish detachment of CA ships spent a week in theatre aiding them. 19. The war continues. Casualties have been high on both sides, and many corporations have quit the fighting and fled to empire. The cost to neutrals has been high also because the dream of freespace and open territory has fallen in Tribute and Vale and Geminate, washed away in a tide of blood and carnage by the TPS. Pureblind today is also dangerous, but the fighting rages and matter is a long way from being settled. JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:48:00 -
[3] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/08/2004 20:11:37 12. By this point the Evolution offensive against PA had come to an inconclusive end (with PA having been hit hard but not driven from its home) and Evolution went elsewhere to fight Curse and their allies in the south. 13. Halseth and the PA changed tact in the north and declared a new ôsuper allianceö structure called the NAST treaty, which was designed to be a free space pact for the regions outside of Venal. The other northern alliances were invited to join but no invitation was made to individual corporations. PA through NAST laid claim to Tribute and the former FE holdings (pleased that their NAP with FE had been effectively rendered null by the Reikoku and alliesÆ victory in the regions). 14. For a time there was peace and relationships were warming (even between Jericho Fraction and Pheonix Alliance). But a series of incidents and problems began to occur which had the appearance of Reikoku being targeted by the PA in various underhand tactics. Endless diplomacy occurred, and many many hours of talks passed in voice communications and debate, yet still the tension rose and tempers flared and ships and lives were taken. 15. What the flashpoint was is hotly debated (as indeed is the motive). I personally believe that some PA corporations resented NAST, resented Reikoku and Jericho Fraction, and wanted ownership of the conquerable stations in Tribute for glory and boasting rights. I believe these interests came to stage ôissuesö and ôconfrontationsö and played a great part in upping the tension. It was also very obvious that the PA was using the NAST treaty as a ôdivide and ruleö mechanism, being at great pains to tell FU and COD alliances that they would be in breach of treaty if they aided their old allies Reikoku in any future conflict with the PA. 16. Then CDI Corporation (PA) was caught doing some foolish things. (These fully detailed on RKK and NCA forums û the list is quite long). PA diplomats Halseth, Robeyone and KIAINKZ fully accepted that CDI was in the wrong, and gave their personal assurances and promises in voice communication that if CDI made *any* future infraction of its parole terms (stringently agreed by all present) then CDI would be ejected from the PA (or RONA, RONA-KIA and Oberon would themselves leave). This satisfied the allied powers and peace seemed likely once again. 17. CDI broke the parole. PA failed to keep its word. War began. 18. In the months past people have chosen sides and most have chosen to stand with their friends. ReikokuÆs old allies joined the NCA against the PA, and the PA have been joined by the latest incarnation of the M3G4/Biomass/Foresaken Empire, in the resurgent Pirate Syndicate. Evolution returned to the war in the north to settle unfinished business and brought their allies of Moo Corporation to fight with them. PA called for aid from the Curse Alliance (long enemies of Moo and Evo) and a smallish detachment of CA ships spent a week in theatre aiding them. 19. The war continues. Casualties have been high on both sides, and many corporations have quit the fighting and fled to empire. The cost to neutrals has been high also because the dream of freespace and open territory has fallen in Tribute and Vale and Geminate, washed away in a tide of blood and carnage by the TPS. Pureblind today is also dangerous, but the fighting rages and matter is a long way from being settled. JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:48:00 -
[4] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/08/2004 20:01:27 I will be as brief as I can ... but its a complex subject. 1. The Northern War began in truth, when Ragnar intrigued against Fountain and tried to hire mercenaries to assassinate FA personalities. The scheme misfired and FA declared war on the original Venal Alliance (VA). 2. Taggart became estranged from the mainstream VA over funding issues. The FA was clearly winning. FA offered the VA corps a way out if they ditched Taggart. VA council voted and opted not to ditch Taggart and to continue the war. Ragnar had a funny turn and donned his magic hat and declared all who had voted against Taggart in the minority to be ôtraitorsö. This behaviour shocked the council and a revote was held, this time ejecting Taggart and sparking the Venal civil war. 3. The sides were: Taggart Transdimensional, and all the unrepentant pirate corps of the north (Paladins of Red Skull, Space Invaders, and a couple of others) plus Scenites and M3G4 (who had been paid by Ragnar to intervene) Vs the NVA (which was an alliance of corporations swearing to reform and adopt a new freespace agenda and open system of government. Although initially outmatched, the NVA recruited and PRÆed its way to eventual victory by eliminating the Taggart side of the civil war. Taggart finally had an internal reshuffle and elected a new board, the leader of which agreed terms for the ending of hostilities and peaceful withdrawal from the north. 4. NVA knew peace for a little while, but soon tensions between its fighters and industrialists grew, and many of the reformed ex pirates wanted to go back to shooting innocents and picking fights. Worse yet the M3G4 pirate corp (though entirely destroyed in the civil war) reformed as Biomass and began to recruit NVA turncoats to strengthen its number. Many incidents occurred including the famous betrayal of Hupa who turned on his own friends and changed sides mid battle. A new war was inevitable and the NVA council moved to strike against Biomass and its backers in Geminate region. 5. NVA suffered from lack of coordination and poor fleet leadership and lost badly against Biomass in engagement after engagement. New combat corps were recruited to the NVA, but the tide was seemingly impossible to turn. Biomass forged an empire of sorts, and widened their sphere of influence into something called the Forsaken Empire which at its height included the last remnants of Space Invaders and some dozen other pirate corps. 6. Industrial powers in the NVA got tired of the constant fighting and eventually treated for terms with the Forsaken Empire, offering to put aside the past and unite the NVA and FE in an enduring union to ôdominate the northö. This angered and astonished many of the original NVA members (and recent recruits) and led to a great deal of strife and antagonism in the council chambers. Chief amongst the FE demands for the pact was that my corporation, Jericho Fraction, would have to be ejected from the NVA before peace could be signed. 7. Two days later many of the NVA industrial corps staged a coup and ejected Jericho Fraction from the alliance. There was no formal vote and many corporations of the old NVA were not consulted in any way. Reikoku Corporation opted not to stand for this backstabbing of an ally and so chose to leave immediately, other honourable corporations followed over the next few weeks. 8. The NVA was reformed under the direction of Halseth Durn primarily, who declared the new alliance would be called the Pheonix Alliance, and would be entirely free of past arrangements, pacts, agreements and treaties. Halseth declared the original NVA treaty a tired and lifeless failure and announced that the PA would be closed space territorial and trespassers would be shot on sight. 9. The first significance of this betrayal of past bargains was that PA closed access to Venal to Evolution Corporation (that had played a role in freeing the north from Taggart alliance during the civil war). This was seen as a great affront (which it was) to Evolution, and a new war raged for a time with PA paying a heavy price for this erasure of past agreements. 10. While the Evolution war occupied front-page news PA made a NAP agreement with the FE and acknowledged the rights of the Biomass-descended FE corps to hold and run Tribute, Vale and Geminate as they so chose. 11. Meanwhile Reikoku corporation had been joined by better allies from NORAD and ex PA corps and set about fighting the FE in the north in earnest. This war raged from Fade to Deklein and then finally back to Tribute and Vale and ended in the effective destruction of the FE (through inactivity and formal defeat in combat) and the establishment of friendly alliances in the former FE holdings. -cont JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:48:00 -
[5] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/08/2004 20:01:27 I will be as brief as I can ... but its a complex subject. 1. The Northern War began in truth, when Ragnar intrigued against Fountain and tried to hire mercenaries to assassinate FA personalities. The scheme misfired and FA declared war on the original Venal Alliance (VA). 2. Taggart became estranged from the mainstream VA over funding issues. The FA was clearly winning. FA offered the VA corps a way out if they ditched Taggart. VA council voted and opted not to ditch Taggart and to continue the war. Ragnar had a funny turn and donned his magic hat and declared all who had voted against Taggart in the minority to be ôtraitorsö. This behaviour shocked the council and a revote was held, this time ejecting Taggart and sparking the Venal civil war. 3. The sides were: Taggart Transdimensional, and all the unrepentant pirate corps of the north (Paladins of Red Skull, Space Invaders, and a couple of others) plus Scenites and M3G4 (who had been paid by Ragnar to intervene) Vs the NVA (which was an alliance of corporations swearing to reform and adopt a new freespace agenda and open system of government. Although initially outmatched, the NVA recruited and PRÆed its way to eventual victory by eliminating the Taggart side of the civil war. Taggart finally had an internal reshuffle and elected a new board, the leader of which agreed terms for the ending of hostilities and peaceful withdrawal from the north. 4. NVA knew peace for a little while, but soon tensions between its fighters and industrialists grew, and many of the reformed ex pirates wanted to go back to shooting innocents and picking fights. Worse yet the M3G4 pirate corp (though entirely destroyed in the civil war) reformed as Biomass and began to recruit NVA turncoats to strengthen its number. Many incidents occurred including the famous betrayal of Hupa who turned on his own friends and changed sides mid battle. A new war was inevitable and the NVA council moved to strike against Biomass and its backers in Geminate region. 5. NVA suffered from lack of coordination and poor fleet leadership and lost badly against Biomass in engagement after engagement. New combat corps were recruited to the NVA, but the tide was seemingly impossible to turn. Biomass forged an empire of sorts, and widened their sphere of influence into something called the Forsaken Empire which at its height included the last remnants of Space Invaders and some dozen other pirate corps. 6. Industrial powers in the NVA got tired of the constant fighting and eventually treated for terms with the Forsaken Empire, offering to put aside the past and unite the NVA and FE in an enduring union to ôdominate the northö. This angered and astonished many of the original NVA members (and recent recruits) and led to a great deal of strife and antagonism in the council chambers. Chief amongst the FE demands for the pact was that my corporation, Jericho Fraction, would have to be ejected from the NVA before peace could be signed. 7. Two days later many of the NVA industrial corps staged a coup and ejected Jericho Fraction from the alliance. There was no formal vote and many corporations of the old NVA were not consulted in any way. Reikoku Corporation opted not to stand for this backstabbing of an ally and so chose to leave immediately, other honourable corporations followed over the next few weeks. 8. The NVA was reformed under the direction of Halseth Durn primarily, who declared the new alliance would be called the Pheonix Alliance, and would be entirely free of past arrangements, pacts, agreements and treaties. Halseth declared the original NVA treaty a tired and lifeless failure and announced that the PA would be closed space territorial and trespassers would be shot on sight. 9. The first significance of this betrayal of past bargains was that PA closed access to Venal to Evolution Corporation (that had played a role in freeing the north from Taggart alliance during the civil war). This was seen as a great affront (which it was) to Evolution, and a new war raged for a time with PA paying a heavy price for this erasure of past agreements. 10. While the Evolution war occupied front-page news PA made a NAP agreement with the FE and acknowledged the rights of the Biomass-descended FE corps to hold and run Tribute, Vale and Geminate as they so chose. 11. Meanwhile Reikoku corporation had been joined by better allies from NORAD and ex PA corps and set about fighting the FE in the north in earnest. This war raged from Fade to Deklein and then finally back to Tribute and Vale and ended in the effective destruction of the FE (through inactivity and formal defeat in combat) and the establishment of friendly alliances in the former FE holdings. -cont JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:48:00 -
[6] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/08/2004 20:11:37 12. By this point the Evolution offensive against PA had come to an inconclusive end (with PA having been hit hard but not driven from its home) and Evolution went elsewhere to fight Curse and their allies in the south. 13. Halseth and the PA changed tact in the north and declared a new ôsuper allianceö structure called the NAST treaty, which was designed to be a free space pact for the regions outside of Venal. The other northern alliances were invited to join but no invitation was made to individual corporations. PA through NAST laid claim to Tribute and the former FE holdings (pleased that their NAP with FE had been effectively rendered null by the Reikoku and alliesÆ victory in the regions). 14. For a time there was peace and relationships were warming (even between Jericho Fraction and Pheonix Alliance). But a series of incidents and problems began to occur which had the appearance of Reikoku being targeted by the PA in various underhand tactics. Endless diplomacy occurred, and many many hours of talks passed in voice communications and debate, yet still the tension rose and tempers flared and ships and lives were taken. 15. What the flashpoint was is hotly debated (as indeed is the motive). I personally believe that some PA corporations resented NAST, resented Reikoku and Jericho Fraction, and wanted ownership of the conquerable stations in Tribute for glory and boasting rights. I believe these interests came to stage ôissuesö and ôconfrontationsö and played a great part in upping the tension. It was also very obvious that the PA was using the NAST treaty as a ôdivide and ruleö mechanism, being at great pains to tell FU and COD alliances that they would be in breach of treaty if they aided their old allies Reikoku in any future conflict with the PA. 16. Then CDI Corporation (PA) was caught doing some foolish things. (These fully detailed on RKK and NCA forums û the list is quite long). PA diplomats Halseth, Robeyone and KIAINKZ fully accepted that CDI was in the wrong, and gave their personal assurances and promises in voice communication that if CDI made *any* future infraction of its parole terms (stringently agreed by all present) then CDI would be ejected from the PA (or RONA, RONA-KIA and Oberon would themselves leave). This satisfied the allied powers and peace seemed likely once again. 17. CDI broke the parole. PA failed to keep its word. War began. 18. In the months past people have chosen sides and most have chosen to stand with their friends. ReikokuÆs old allies joined the NCA against the PA, and the PA have been joined by the latest incarnation of the M3G4/Biomass/Foresaken Empire, in the resurgent Pirate Syndicate. Evolution returned to the war in the north to settle unfinished business and brought their allies of Moo Corporation to fight with them. PA called for aid from the Curse Alliance (long enemies of Moo and Evo) and a smallish detachment of CA ships spent a week in theatre aiding them. 19. The war continues. Casualties have been high on both sides, and many corporations have quit the fighting and fled to empire. The cost to neutrals has been high also because the dream of freespace and open territory has fallen in Tribute and Vale and Geminate, washed away in a tide of blood and carnage by the TPS. Pureblind today is also dangerous, but the fighting rages and matter is a long way from being settled. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:49:00 -
[7] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/08/2004 19:58:59 Essentially the war is about political ambition in parts: with the current leaders of the PA wanting the super-state that the NVA could not provide them and the big names of the past returned again to contest old scores. TPS is the alliance that M3G4 dreamed of having; PA is still HalsethÆs brainchild and dream. NCA is the effective banner identity for the company of friends and allies Reikoku forged on their exit from the NVA, and Jericho Fraction is still promoting the oldest cause of open space and free trade and access to entrepreneurs in Pureblind. If I had to name the three most significant moments in the history of the northern conflict I would say: 1. RagnorÆs speech which triggered the civil war and split the VA forever. 2. HalsethÆs proposal to merge NVA with the FE which killed the NVA and made us enemies forever. 3. Galavet of Reikoku opting to declare war alone against the might of PA and throwing down the gauntlet for a region superpower. Now for the record, I think in future you would be best to ask this kind of question on the Intergalactic Summit forum, because although everyone would feel obliged to answer still, it would greatly reduce the incidence of bad behaviour and ranting. There are emotive subjects. But what I would be interested in hearing would be memoirs of the great leaders and plotters and alliance representatives of the past, and seeing these things presented without the ridiculous merry-go-round of routine insults and juvenile put-downs that so often attend any work or writing on this public forum. PS. Later on I will add the direct links to my potted history of the northern war (assuming the thread stays unlocked for more than 30mins) There is a a lot of interesting material. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:49:00 -
[8] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/08/2004 19:58:59 Essentially the war is about political ambition in parts: with the current leaders of the PA wanting the super-state that the NVA could not provide them and the big names of the past returned again to contest old scores. TPS is the alliance that M3G4 dreamed of having; PA is still HalsethÆs brainchild and dream. NCA is the effective banner identity for the company of friends and allies Reikoku forged on their exit from the NVA, and Jericho Fraction is still promoting the oldest cause of open space and free trade and access to entrepreneurs in Pureblind. If I had to name the three most significant moments in the history of the northern conflict I would say: 1. RagnorÆs speech which triggered the civil war and split the VA forever. 2. HalsethÆs proposal to merge NVA with the FE which killed the NVA and made us enemies forever. 3. Galavet of Reikoku opting to declare war alone against the might of PA and throwing down the gauntlet for a region superpower. Now for the record, I think in future you would be best to ask this kind of question on the Intergalactic Summit forum, because although everyone would feel obliged to answer still, it would greatly reduce the incidence of bad behaviour and ranting. There are emotive subjects. But what I would be interested in hearing would be memoirs of the great leaders and plotters and alliance representatives of the past, and seeing these things presented without the ridiculous merry-go-round of routine insults and juvenile put-downs that so often attend any work or writing on this public forum. PS. Later on I will add the direct links to my potted history of the northern war (assuming the thread stays unlocked for more than 30mins) There is a a lot of interesting material. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.17 19:49:00 -
[9] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 17/08/2004 19:58:59 Essentially the war is about political ambition in parts: with the current leaders of the PA wanting the super-state that the NVA could not provide them and the big names of the past returned again to contest old scores. TPS is the alliance that M3G4 dreamed of having; PA is still HalsethÆs brainchild and dream. NCA is the effective banner identity for the company of friends and allies Reikoku forged on their exit from the NVA, and Jericho Fraction is still promoting the oldest cause of open space and free trade and access to entrepreneurs in Pureblind. If I had to name the three most significant moments in the history of the northern conflict I would say: 1. RagnorÆs speech which triggered the civil war and split the VA forever. 2. HalsethÆs proposal to merge NVA with the FE which killed the NVA and made us enemies forever. 3. Galavet of Reikoku opting to declare war alone against the might of PA and throwing down the gauntlet for a region superpower. Now for the record, I think in future you would be best to ask this kind of question on the Intergalactic Summit forum, because although everyone would feel obliged to answer still, it would greatly reduce the incidence of bad behaviour and ranting. There are emotive subjects. But what I would be interested in hearing would be memoirs of the great leaders and plotters and alliance representatives of the past, and seeing these things presented without the ridiculous merry-go-round of routine insults and juvenile put-downs that so often attend any work or writing on this public forum. PS. Later on I will add the direct links to my potted history of the northern war (assuming the thread stays unlocked for more than 30mins) There is a a lot of interesting material. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:00:00 -
[10]
Oh I strongly believe there is a lot more to it than that, Cao Cao is a very cunning and competent political operator. He isn't your run of the mill pirate bravo. Remember that TPS is the latest incarnation of M3G4 from way back when in the VA civil war. Those chaps have history and they want to dominate the north as much as the next power mad dictator ;) JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:00:00 -
[11]
Oh I strongly believe there is a lot more to it than that, Cao Cao is a very cunning and competent political operator. He isn't your run of the mill pirate bravo. Remember that TPS is the latest incarnation of M3G4 from way back when in the VA civil war. Those chaps have history and they want to dominate the north as much as the next power mad dictator ;) JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:00:00 -
[12]
Oh I strongly believe there is a lot more to it than that, Cao Cao is a very cunning and competent political operator. He isn't your run of the mill pirate bravo. Remember that TPS is the latest incarnation of M3G4 from way back when in the VA civil war. Those chaps have history and they want to dominate the north as much as the next power mad dictator ;) JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:21:00 -
[13] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/09/2004 00:15:40 Well here is a history of the Venal conflicts told in threads on this forum. There is a ridiculous amount of material here and I have tried to provide multiple angles and narrative voices. Links Follow FA vs VA Analyis Night of Treachery Taggart press conference Civil war in Venal NVA Declaration of Principles M3G4 is dead! Ragnar Retires! The real Pheonix Alliance! Reikoku is born Things go wrong for the NVA The famous Captain Massacre A compromise constitution in wartime Not ours but hilarious politics Jade Resigns as PR rep History of Venal (From RONA-KIA) Disillusionment with NVA changes Halseth declares the coup Robeyone answers questions Reikoku vote with their hearts Pheonix Alliance closes the doors! Presidio's Shameful cheating in a 1v1 (Evol vs PA war) Evolution declares Venal dead after two weeks of fighting PA aid CA against RKK in Tribute Halseth Declares the NAST Halseth Resigns for the first time Halseth Resigns Again Eve of the great northern war Last minute CDI deal Reikoku declare war on PA Jericho Fraction declares war on PA NAST kicks out the PA Robeyone justifies breaking his word PA begins targeting neutrals in Tribute First 14 days of the northern war Sir Molle offers the PA surrender terms Venal a Ghost town The CA join the northern War on the PA side An attempt at neutral analysis of the conflict Fountain Alliance policy on the Northern War DB Preacher on the Northern War JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:21:00 -
[14] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/09/2004 00:15:40 Well here is a history of the Venal conflicts told in threads on this forum. There is a ridiculous amount of material here and I have tried to provide multiple angles and narrative voices. Links Follow FA vs VA Analyis Night of Treachery Taggart press conference Civil war in Venal NVA Declaration of Principles M3G4 is dead! Ragnar Retires! The real Pheonix Alliance! Reikoku is born Things go wrong for the NVA The famous Captain Massacre A compromise constitution in wartime Not ours but hilarious politics Jade Resigns as PR rep History of Venal (From RONA-KIA) Disillusionment with NVA changes Halseth declares the coup Robeyone answers questions Reikoku vote with their hearts Pheonix Alliance closes the doors! Presidio's Shameful cheating in a 1v1 (Evol vs PA war) Evolution declares Venal dead after two weeks of fighting PA aid CA against RKK in Tribute Halseth Declares the NAST Halseth Resigns for the first time Halseth Resigns Again Eve of the great northern war Last minute CDI deal Reikoku declare war on PA Jericho Fraction declares war on PA NAST kicks out the PA Robeyone justifies breaking his word PA begins targeting neutrals in Tribute First 14 days of the northern war Sir Molle offers the PA surrender terms Venal a Ghost town The CA join the northern War on the PA side An attempt at neutral analysis of the conflict Fountain Alliance policy on the Northern War DB Preacher on the Northern War JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:21:00 -
[15] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 02/09/2004 00:15:40 Well here is a history of the Venal conflicts told in threads on this forum. There is a ridiculous amount of material here and I have tried to provide multiple angles and narrative voices. Links Follow FA vs VA Analyis Night of Treachery Taggart press conference Civil war in Venal NVA Declaration of Principles M3G4 is dead! Ragnar Retires! The real Pheonix Alliance! Reikoku is born Things go wrong for the NVA The famous Captain Massacre A compromise constitution in wartime Not ours but hilarious politics Jade Resigns as PR rep History of Venal (From RONA-KIA) Disillusionment with NVA changes Halseth declares the coup Robeyone answers questions Reikoku vote with their hearts Pheonix Alliance closes the doors! Presidio's Shameful cheating in a 1v1 (Evol vs PA war) Evolution declares Venal dead after two weeks of fighting PA aid CA against RKK in Tribute Halseth Declares the NAST Halseth Resigns for the first time Halseth Resigns Again Eve of the great northern war Last minute CDI deal Reikoku declare war on PA Jericho Fraction declares war on PA NAST kicks out the PA Robeyone justifies breaking his word PA begins targeting neutrals in Tribute First 14 days of the northern war Sir Molle offers the PA surrender terms Venal a Ghost town The CA join the northern War on the PA side An attempt at neutral analysis of the conflict Fountain Alliance policy on the Northern War DB Preacher on the Northern War JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:25:00 -
[16] Thats just a small selection to be honest ... but I chose some of my favourites. JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:25:00 -
[17] Thats just a small selection to be honest ... but I chose some of my favourites. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:25:00 -
[18] Thats just a small selection to be honest ... but I chose some of my favourites. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:45:00 -
[19] Oh I know he technically might not run it. But then lets face it, technically CA is a democracy, still lets not derail the interesting thread with speculation. JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:45:00 -
[20] Oh I know he technically might not run it. But then lets face it, technically CA is a democracy, still lets not derail the interesting thread with speculation. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:45:00 -
[21] Oh I know he technically might not run it. But then lets face it, technically CA is a democracy, still lets not derail the interesting thread with speculation. JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:54:00 -
[22] How many corps have you fallen out of Mongo? (Strangely mine still seems to be working okay) ... ah well, I guess you were joking. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:54:00 -
[23] How many corps have you fallen out of Mongo? (Strangely mine still seems to be working okay) ... ah well, I guess you were joking. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.17 23:54:00 -
[24] How many corps have you fallen out of Mongo? (Strangely mine still seems to be working okay) ... ah well, I guess you were joking. JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 00:06:00 -
[25]
Welcome back Hupa (some strange days ahead I think) I am wondering how long it will be before you are in position on another Venal fleet ;) I bet these PA chaps don't remember what happened last time ... JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 00:06:00 -
[26]
Welcome back Hupa (some strange days ahead I think) I am wondering how long it will be before you are in position on another Venal fleet ;) I bet these PA chaps don't remember what happened last time ... JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.18 00:06:00 -
[27]
Welcome back Hupa (some strange days ahead I think) I am wondering how long it will be before you are in position on another Venal fleet ;) I bet these PA chaps don't remember what happened last time ... JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 02:03:00 -
[28] How are the "scenites" doing Mongo? JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 02:03:00 -
[29] How are the "scenites" doing Mongo? JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.18 02:03:00 -
[30] How are the "scenites" doing Mongo? JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:45:00 -
[31] KIAInkz mentions an interesting period of NVA history prior to the coup that destroyed the NVA. And thinking back on the period this is how it seemed to me: 1. Situation was that the war with the Biomass/FE was going on forever and clearly NVA wasn't winning. There was very high frustration amongst the NVA fighters and a lot of angst and grinding of teeth at the defeats routinely handed out by Space Invaders and others against the Venal fleets. Additional background to this was that Biomass/FE was running an active psyops campaign against the NVA (pretty much in a similar vein to the anti NAST strategy outlined by Cao Cao in his latter post) FE personalities told NVA leaders in private channels that the war was entirely the fault of Jade and the Jericho Fraction and all they had to do to end hostilties was to kick us out. Obviously that seemed a small enough price to pay for peace to some. 2. I took some extreme measures in the NVA council; hiring mercenaries to strike against Biomass/FE and recruited some combat specialist corporations in the NVA without going through the formal joining process. (this was wartime and we badly needed some wins). Celestial Apocalypse, Deathstar, Millenium and Quantum Industries were the four corps in question. The first three all had very good recommendations from Reikoku and ex Naginata NVA fighters, the last was an industrial outfit that promised to keep the war effort going. 3. Certain leaders in the NVA saw this as empire building and some kind of a personal bid for power from JF, and accused me of trying to build a power structure within the NVA against the interests of the old guard, while at around this time, Occassius Republica corporation (Gafton) who was forum trustee on the NVA site began to use his position to capture internal memos from Jericho Fraction and other corps for the purpose of espionage and intrigue in the NVA council. As InkZ notes; some of these memos showed Miso (who was then JF) condemning the NVA leaders, the MIB (fleet command) and general NVA membership for being slothful and ungrateful ingrates that she hoped would all die. This was used by Gafton to spread the impression that JF was anti NVA and was a problem to be dealt with. 4. Then a very busy weekend. First there was a meeting of CEO's and corporate reps to discuss the FE situation; nothing was resolved, but during the meeting the OCC and CDI reps suggested that I was the biggest problem for the NVA, and that only my public relations work was sustaining the FE war. I resigned. Next, I receive a conversation from SharkBigDog of CDI with a startling proposal. Shark suggested that we have a coup, and immediately remove all of the non-combat corps from the alliance because they were doing nothing to help the war effort. Oberon, RONA, and about half a dozen smaller corps were named by Shark. I told him this proposal was madness and would lead to nothing but infighting and civil war. He tried at length to convince me to join up with the "old guard original venal" to reform the NVA to its pirate roots and eject all "novices and carebears". I told him to drop the idea and get back to fighting the war. Later on that night "the preacher" (OCC) presents "evidence" to the NVA council that Jericho Fraction is about to defect to the Foresaken Empire and that JF is furious with the NVA and wants to join with our bitterest foes to destroy the alliance. I walk in on this discussion and am told that "secret communication logs" support this suspicion and that routine monitoring of our internal comms has been conducted by spies and informers and that OCC is considering demanding our removal as traitors from the NVA. Smelling a rat I ask to see the communication logs ... none are presented. I ask who we are supposed to have been talking to in the FE. No names are named. I ask who is informing against us in the NVA, again no answer. Jericho Fraction council reps (myself, Athule Snanm and Taker) then record the strongest possible condemnation of this policy of spying on allied corps and demand that the "evidence" against us is either presented or dismissed. (One imagines that somewhere close at hand the FE strategists and planners are laughing their arses off) 5. Since there is a real suspicion that one of the NVA forum admins is abusing his position to spy on allied corps Athule Snanm pulls all access to the forums pending an investigation. In response KIAHicks and Bobby Wilson (and others) set up a new NVA forum without inviting Jericho (who they say, has been accused of working with the FE and cannot be trusted). - continued. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:45:00 -
[32] KIAInkz mentions an interesting period of NVA history prior to the coup that destroyed the NVA. And thinking back on the period this is how it seemed to me: 1. Situation was that the war with the Biomass/FE was going on forever and clearly NVA wasn't winning. There was very high frustration amongst the NVA fighters and a lot of angst and grinding of teeth at the defeats routinely handed out by Space Invaders and others against the Venal fleets. Additional background to this was that Biomass/FE was running an active psyops campaign against the NVA (pretty much in a similar vein to the anti NAST strategy outlined by Cao Cao in his latter post) FE personalities told NVA leaders in private channels that the war was entirely the fault of Jade and the Jericho Fraction and all they had to do to end hostilties was to kick us out. Obviously that seemed a small enough price to pay for peace to some. 2. I took some extreme measures in the NVA council; hiring mercenaries to strike against Biomass/FE and recruited some combat specialist corporations in the NVA without going through the formal joining process. (this was wartime and we badly needed some wins). Celestial Apocalypse, Deathstar, Millenium and Quantum Industries were the four corps in question. The first three all had very good recommendations from Reikoku and ex Naginata NVA fighters, the last was an industrial outfit that promised to keep the war effort going. 3. Certain leaders in the NVA saw this as empire building and some kind of a personal bid for power from JF, and accused me of trying to build a power structure within the NVA against the interests of the old guard, while at around this time, Occassius Republica corporation (Gafton) who was forum trustee on the NVA site began to use his position to capture internal memos from Jericho Fraction and other corps for the purpose of espionage and intrigue in the NVA council. As InkZ notes; some of these memos showed Miso (who was then JF) condemning the NVA leaders, the MIB (fleet command) and general NVA membership for being slothful and ungrateful ingrates that she hoped would all die. This was used by Gafton to spread the impression that JF was anti NVA and was a problem to be dealt with. 4. Then a very busy weekend. First there was a meeting of CEO's and corporate reps to discuss the FE situation; nothing was resolved, but during the meeting the OCC and CDI reps suggested that I was the biggest problem for the NVA, and that only my public relations work was sustaining the FE war. I resigned. Next, I receive a conversation from SharkBigDog of CDI with a startling proposal. Shark suggested that we have a coup, and immediately remove all of the non-combat corps from the alliance because they were doing nothing to help the war effort. Oberon, RONA, and about half a dozen smaller corps were named by Shark. I told him this proposal was madness and would lead to nothing but infighting and civil war. He tried at length to convince me to join up with the "old guard original venal" to reform the NVA to its pirate roots and eject all "novices and carebears". I told him to drop the idea and get back to fighting the war. Later on that night "the preacher" (OCC) presents "evidence" to the NVA council that Jericho Fraction is about to defect to the Foresaken Empire and that JF is furious with the NVA and wants to join with our bitterest foes to destroy the alliance. I walk in on this discussion and am told that "secret communication logs" support this suspicion and that routine monitoring of our internal comms has been conducted by spies and informers and that OCC is considering demanding our removal as traitors from the NVA. Smelling a rat I ask to see the communication logs ... none are presented. I ask who we are supposed to have been talking to in the FE. No names are named. I ask who is informing against us in the NVA, again no answer. Jericho Fraction council reps (myself, Athule Snanm and Taker) then record the strongest possible condemnation of this policy of spying on allied corps and demand that the "evidence" against us is either presented or dismissed. (One imagines that somewhere close at hand the FE strategists and planners are laughing their arses off) 5. Since there is a real suspicion that one of the NVA forum admins is abusing his position to spy on allied corps Athule Snanm pulls all access to the forums pending an investigation. In response KIAHicks and Bobby Wilson (and others) set up a new NVA forum without inviting Jericho (who they say, has been accused of working with the FE and cannot be trusted). - continued. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:45:00 -
[33] KIAInkz mentions an interesting period of NVA history prior to the coup that destroyed the NVA. And thinking back on the period this is how it seemed to me: 1. Situation was that the war with the Biomass/FE was going on forever and clearly NVA wasn't winning. There was very high frustration amongst the NVA fighters and a lot of angst and grinding of teeth at the defeats routinely handed out by Space Invaders and others against the Venal fleets. Additional background to this was that Biomass/FE was running an active psyops campaign against the NVA (pretty much in a similar vein to the anti NAST strategy outlined by Cao Cao in his latter post) FE personalities told NVA leaders in private channels that the war was entirely the fault of Jade and the Jericho Fraction and all they had to do to end hostilties was to kick us out. Obviously that seemed a small enough price to pay for peace to some. 2. I took some extreme measures in the NVA council; hiring mercenaries to strike against Biomass/FE and recruited some combat specialist corporations in the NVA without going through the formal joining process. (this was wartime and we badly needed some wins). Celestial Apocalypse, Deathstar, Millenium and Quantum Industries were the four corps in question. The first three all had very good recommendations from Reikoku and ex Naginata NVA fighters, the last was an industrial outfit that promised to keep the war effort going. 3. Certain leaders in the NVA saw this as empire building and some kind of a personal bid for power from JF, and accused me of trying to build a power structure within the NVA against the interests of the old guard, while at around this time, Occassius Republica corporation (Gafton) who was forum trustee on the NVA site began to use his position to capture internal memos from Jericho Fraction and other corps for the purpose of espionage and intrigue in the NVA council. As InkZ notes; some of these memos showed Miso (who was then JF) condemning the NVA leaders, the MIB (fleet command) and general NVA membership for being slothful and ungrateful ingrates that she hoped would all die. This was used by Gafton to spread the impression that JF was anti NVA and was a problem to be dealt with. 4. Then a very busy weekend. First there was a meeting of CEO's and corporate reps to discuss the FE situation; nothing was resolved, but during the meeting the OCC and CDI reps suggested that I was the biggest problem for the NVA, and that only my public relations work was sustaining the FE war. I resigned. Next, I receive a conversation from SharkBigDog of CDI with a startling proposal. Shark suggested that we have a coup, and immediately remove all of the non-combat corps from the alliance because they were doing nothing to help the war effort. Oberon, RONA, and about half a dozen smaller corps were named by Shark. I told him this proposal was madness and would lead to nothing but infighting and civil war. He tried at length to convince me to join up with the "old guard original venal" to reform the NVA to its pirate roots and eject all "novices and carebears". I told him to drop the idea and get back to fighting the war. Later on that night "the preacher" (OCC) presents "evidence" to the NVA council that Jericho Fraction is about to defect to the Foresaken Empire and that JF is furious with the NVA and wants to join with our bitterest foes to destroy the alliance. I walk in on this discussion and am told that "secret communication logs" support this suspicion and that routine monitoring of our internal comms has been conducted by spies and informers and that OCC is considering demanding our removal as traitors from the NVA. Smelling a rat I ask to see the communication logs ... none are presented. I ask who we are supposed to have been talking to in the FE. No names are named. I ask who is informing against us in the NVA, again no answer. Jericho Fraction council reps (myself, Athule Snanm and Taker) then record the strongest possible condemnation of this policy of spying on allied corps and demand that the "evidence" against us is either presented or dismissed. (One imagines that somewhere close at hand the FE strategists and planners are laughing their arses off) 5. Since there is a real suspicion that one of the NVA forum admins is abusing his position to spy on allied corps Athule Snanm pulls all access to the forums pending an investigation. In response KIAHicks and Bobby Wilson (and others) set up a new NVA forum without inviting Jericho (who they say, has been accused of working with the FE and cannot be trusted). - continued. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:46:00 -
[34] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/08/2004 13:14:52 6. Jericho Fraction protests again, and eventually the charge is dropped and we are "granted" access to the new forums, but Oberon and friends are now very much in control of the situation and use their moderation rights to stifle debate and refuse to table a censure motion that we propose against the activities of forum admins breaching alliance trust. 7. The situation appeared to go away for the time being. The combat corporations I brought into the alliance were slowly integrated and voted through, but its certainly true to say that our faith in the NVA from a Jericho Fraction perspective had been badly rocked and it was clear that internal politics and intrigue was setting the agenda while the FE war continued on the outside. I did try many times to have this matter addressed but the general feeling in the NVA council was that burying heads in the sand was preferable to the restoration of the old camaraderie. 8. Publicly my resignation from the role of NVA PR representative was greeted with disappointment and sorrow by the other NVA leaders, but that proved insufficient sacrifice for the FE planners who continued to press for a full ejection of JF and myself from the NVA as a price for "peace". 9. Crice fronted up the FE negotiations team and he and Halseth together dreamed up the NVA and FE union to "dominate the north". Primarily it was the old guard Venal corps and Oberon and RONA that were party to these negotiations and the southern combat corps I recruited into to NVA had little say in the matter. Lots and lots of things were discussed behind the back of the NVA council, and the final straw was pretty much that Eve Guardian published Halseth's plan for political union with our enemies before most of the NVA knew about it. That was quite a rude awakening and I do admit that I was certainly rude about the proposal in open NVA channels. 10. Hence the coup and Jericho Fraction's ejection from the NVA and destruction of the NVA itself. Halseth and co couldn't risk a vote on this because they only had a minority of the council support and they knew that if I was given even the slightest chance to debate the issue they would be accused of going behind all our backs to discuss terms with the enemy while our ships were fighting and dying to protect Oberon and CDI mining wealth. So. There is that part of history in detail (incidently the great majority of these things are on public record in the threads I publicised earlier, including the Robeyone QA session where he confirms the illegal ejection of JF and coup structure.) The reason these things are worth remembering is that many of the personalities still debating and clashing rhetorically in the latest war drew their emnities and rivalry form the past political conflicts of the region. And its certainly worth knowing that the current leaders of the TPS have a solid grounding in psychological warfare and political sabotage that should never be underestimated. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:46:00 -
[35] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/08/2004 13:14:52 6. Jericho Fraction protests again, and eventually the charge is dropped and we are "granted" access to the new forums, but Oberon and friends are now very much in control of the situation and use their moderation rights to stifle debate and refuse to table a censure motion that we propose against the activities of forum admins breaching alliance trust. 7. The situation appeared to go away for the time being. The combat corporations I brought into the alliance were slowly integrated and voted through, but its certainly true to say that our faith in the NVA from a Jericho Fraction perspective had been badly rocked and it was clear that internal politics and intrigue was setting the agenda while the FE war continued on the outside. I did try many times to have this matter addressed but the general feeling in the NVA council was that burying heads in the sand was preferable to the restoration of the old camaraderie. 8. Publicly my resignation from the role of NVA PR representative was greeted with disappointment and sorrow by the other NVA leaders, but that proved insufficient sacrifice for the FE planners who continued to press for a full ejection of JF and myself from the NVA as a price for "peace". 9. Crice fronted up the FE negotiations team and he and Halseth together dreamed up the NVA and FE union to "dominate the north". Primarily it was the old guard Venal corps and Oberon and RONA that were party to these negotiations and the southern combat corps I recruited into to NVA had little say in the matter. Lots and lots of things were discussed behind the back of the NVA council, and the final straw was pretty much that Eve Guardian published Halseth's plan for political union with our enemies before most of the NVA knew about it. That was quite a rude awakening and I do admit that I was certainly rude about the proposal in open NVA channels. 10. Hence the coup and Jericho Fraction's ejection from the NVA and destruction of the NVA itself. Halseth and co couldn't risk a vote on this because they only had a minority of the council support and they knew that if I was given even the slightest chance to debate the issue they would be accused of going behind all our backs to discuss terms with the enemy while our ships were fighting and dying to protect Oberon and CDI mining wealth. So. There is that part of history in detail (incidently the great majority of these things are on public record in the threads I publicised earlier, including the Robeyone QA session where he confirms the illegal ejection of JF and coup structure.) The reason these things are worth remembering is that many of the personalities still debating and clashing rhetorically in the latest war drew their emnities and rivalry form the past political conflicts of the region. And its certainly worth knowing that the current leaders of the TPS have a solid grounding in psychological warfare and political sabotage that should never be underestimated. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.18 12:46:00 -
[36] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/08/2004 13:14:52 6. Jericho Fraction protests again, and eventually the charge is dropped and we are "granted" access to the new forums, but Oberon and friends are now very much in control of the situation and use their moderation rights to stifle debate and refuse to table a censure motion that we propose against the activities of forum admins breaching alliance trust. 7. The situation appeared to go away for the time being. The combat corporations I brought into the alliance were slowly integrated and voted through, but its certainly true to say that our faith in the NVA from a Jericho Fraction perspective had been badly rocked and it was clear that internal politics and intrigue was setting the agenda while the FE war continued on the outside. I did try many times to have this matter addressed but the general feeling in the NVA council was that burying heads in the sand was preferable to the restoration of the old camaraderie. 8. Publicly my resignation from the role of NVA PR representative was greeted with disappointment and sorrow by the other NVA leaders, but that proved insufficient sacrifice for the FE planners who continued to press for a full ejection of JF and myself from the NVA as a price for "peace". 9. Crice fronted up the FE negotiations team and he and Halseth together dreamed up the NVA and FE union to "dominate the north". Primarily it was the old guard Venal corps and Oberon and RONA that were party to these negotiations and the southern combat corps I recruited into to NVA had little say in the matter. Lots and lots of things were discussed behind the back of the NVA council, and the final straw was pretty much that Eve Guardian published Halseth's plan for political union with our enemies before most of the NVA knew about it. That was quite a rude awakening and I do admit that I was certainly rude about the proposal in open NVA channels. 10. Hence the coup and Jericho Fraction's ejection from the NVA and destruction of the NVA itself. Halseth and co couldn't risk a vote on this because they only had a minority of the council support and they knew that if I was given even the slightest chance to debate the issue they would be accused of going behind all our backs to discuss terms with the enemy while our ships were fighting and dying to protect Oberon and CDI mining wealth. So. There is that part of history in detail (incidently the great majority of these things are on public record in the threads I publicised earlier, including the Robeyone QA session where he confirms the illegal ejection of JF and coup structure.) The reason these things are worth remembering is that many of the personalities still debating and clashing rhetorically in the latest war drew their emnities and rivalry form the past political conflicts of the region. And its certainly worth knowing that the current leaders of the TPS have a solid grounding in psychological warfare and political sabotage that should never be underestimated. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 18:01:00 -
[37] All I would suggest to you Halseth, is that you should do as monsieur Theious suggests and simply give an account of the story from your own point of view. I think what irritates most readers of these kind of threads is when the opponents immediately turn negative campaigning and cry "yah boo sucks" from habit rather than any meaningful critique. Case in point; my initial history of the war and Cao Cao's initial history of the war. Taking the bias and rhetorical flourishes with a pinch of salt you can see we are fundimentally both representing the facts and history of what happened. Cao Cao is a good writer and loyal to his cause, and we both address what happened from our own perspectives without descending into name calling and negative comment. I find it funny that you can say that 90% of my account was wrong Halseth while you fully agree with Cao Cao (given that Cao Cao and I haven't really disagreed on anything substantive in those accounts). That does give the appearance of a knee-jerk reactionary condemnation rather than thought out reply and meaningful political analysis. So, lets hear what you have to say and see your opinion expressed in a history in your own words. There has been enough shouting down and ranting at the words of others to last a life time. Nows the moment for people to tell their own tales without attacking the credibility of others. JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.18 18:01:00 -
[38] All I would suggest to you Halseth, is that you should do as monsieur Theious suggests and simply give an account of the story from your own point of view. I think what irritates most readers of these kind of threads is when the opponents immediately turn negative campaigning and cry "yah boo sucks" from habit rather than any meaningful critique. Case in point; my initial history of the war and Cao Cao's initial history of the war. Taking the bias and rhetorical flourishes with a pinch of salt you can see we are fundimentally both representing the facts and history of what happened. Cao Cao is a good writer and loyal to his cause, and we both address what happened from our own perspectives without descending into name calling and negative comment. I find it funny that you can say that 90% of my account was wrong Halseth while you fully agree with Cao Cao (given that Cao Cao and I haven't really disagreed on anything substantive in those accounts). That does give the appearance of a knee-jerk reactionary condemnation rather than thought out reply and meaningful political analysis. So, lets hear what you have to say and see your opinion expressed in a history in your own words. There has been enough shouting down and ranting at the words of others to last a life time. Nows the moment for people to tell their own tales without attacking the credibility of others. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.18 18:01:00 -
[39] All I would suggest to you Halseth, is that you should do as monsieur Theious suggests and simply give an account of the story from your own point of view. I think what irritates most readers of these kind of threads is when the opponents immediately turn negative campaigning and cry "yah boo sucks" from habit rather than any meaningful critique. Case in point; my initial history of the war and Cao Cao's initial history of the war. Taking the bias and rhetorical flourishes with a pinch of salt you can see we are fundimentally both representing the facts and history of what happened. Cao Cao is a good writer and loyal to his cause, and we both address what happened from our own perspectives without descending into name calling and negative comment. I find it funny that you can say that 90% of my account was wrong Halseth while you fully agree with Cao Cao (given that Cao Cao and I haven't really disagreed on anything substantive in those accounts). That does give the appearance of a knee-jerk reactionary condemnation rather than thought out reply and meaningful political analysis. So, lets hear what you have to say and see your opinion expressed in a history in your own words. There has been enough shouting down and ranting at the words of others to last a life time. Nows the moment for people to tell their own tales without attacking the credibility of others. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.19 00:11:00 -
[40] A couple of points of order to Halseth on his account.
I wanted to be very sure that you were committing to pulling your corporations out of the PA and that there would be absolutely no ambiguity or wriggling should CDI break the parole terms (as they later did). That I asked you personally three times to swear to that oath and that your did so swear, is a pretty serious issue.
Incorrect. Jericho Fraction was not satisfied with this gesture alone, we said nothing on that thread and elected to wait and see if CDI would keep its promise. Here is the thread in question: CDI Apology What actually happened is that you presented the deal agreed on Teamspeak as a full and final resolution of the matter in that thread. People looked at it and waited to see if CDI would keep their (and your) word. CDI broke the terms and you broke your promise. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.19 00:11:00 -
[41] A couple of points of order to Halseth on his account.
I wanted to be very sure that you were committing to pulling your corporations out of the PA and that there would be absolutely no ambiguity or wriggling should CDI break the parole terms (as they later did). That I asked you personally three times to swear to that oath and that your did so swear, is a pretty serious issue.
Incorrect. Jericho Fraction was not satisfied with this gesture alone, we said nothing on that thread and elected to wait and see if CDI would keep its promise. Here is the thread in question: CDI Apology What actually happened is that you presented the deal agreed on Teamspeak as a full and final resolution of the matter in that thread. People looked at it and waited to see if CDI would keep their (and your) word. CDI broke the terms and you broke your promise. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.19 00:11:00 -
[42] A couple of points of order to Halseth on his account.
I wanted to be very sure that you were committing to pulling your corporations out of the PA and that there would be absolutely no ambiguity or wriggling should CDI break the parole terms (as they later did). That I asked you personally three times to swear to that oath and that your did so swear, is a pretty serious issue.
Incorrect. Jericho Fraction was not satisfied with this gesture alone, we said nothing on that thread and elected to wait and see if CDI would keep its promise. Here is the thread in question: CDI Apology What actually happened is that you presented the deal agreed on Teamspeak as a full and final resolution of the matter in that thread. People looked at it and waited to see if CDI would keep their (and your) word. CDI broke the terms and you broke your promise. JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.19 00:42:00 -
[43] Halseth, I don't think bold text is going to help.
Are you saying that you didn't even consider the sanctions you agreed to on teamspeak until two weeks after you initially made the promise? That seems a bit twisted even for you. I clearly heard the terms proposed that you agreed to and promised to pull out of the PA if they were later broken. I am a bit amazed that you would try to misrepresent this to be honest.
The sanctions were presented then and there as the price for the allies not immediately going to war with the Pheonix Alliance. That teamspeak meeting was an ultimatum to the PA to kick out CDI or face formal war from all the Reikoku allies. It wasn't a polite chit-chat. You were left with no alternative but to agree those sanctions and make the promises you did if PA was not to be attacked that very night. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.19 00:42:00 -
[44] Halseth, I don't think bold text is going to help.
Are you saying that you didn't even consider the sanctions you agreed to on teamspeak until two weeks after you initially made the promise? That seems a bit twisted even for you. I clearly heard the terms proposed that you agreed to and promised to pull out of the PA if they were later broken. I am a bit amazed that you would try to misrepresent this to be honest.
The sanctions were presented then and there as the price for the allies not immediately going to war with the Pheonix Alliance. That teamspeak meeting was an ultimatum to the PA to kick out CDI or face formal war from all the Reikoku allies. It wasn't a polite chit-chat. You were left with no alternative but to agree those sanctions and make the promises you did if PA was not to be attacked that very night. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.19 00:42:00 -
[45] Halseth, I don't think bold text is going to help.
Are you saying that you didn't even consider the sanctions you agreed to on teamspeak until two weeks after you initially made the promise? That seems a bit twisted even for you. I clearly heard the terms proposed that you agreed to and promised to pull out of the PA if they were later broken. I am a bit amazed that you would try to misrepresent this to be honest.
The sanctions were presented then and there as the price for the allies not immediately going to war with the Pheonix Alliance. That teamspeak meeting was an ultimatum to the PA to kick out CDI or face formal war from all the Reikoku allies. It wasn't a polite chit-chat. You were left with no alternative but to agree those sanctions and make the promises you did if PA was not to be attacked that very night. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.19 16:45:00 -
[46] The terms were pretty much dictated in a voice negotiation as the price for PA not being drawn into a war on their behalf. Halseth presented it as a "voluntary" commitment but that really was just spin. If PA hadn't commited to bind CDI to those sanctions then the Northern war would have started two weeks before. JF Public Forum |
 Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.19 16:45:00 -
[47] The terms were pretty much dictated in a voice negotiation as the price for PA not being drawn into a war on their behalf. Halseth presented it as a "voluntary" commitment but that really was just spin. If PA hadn't commited to bind CDI to those sanctions then the Northern war would have started two weeks before. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.19 16:45:00 -
[48] The terms were pretty much dictated in a voice negotiation as the price for PA not being drawn into a war on their behalf. Halseth presented it as a "voluntary" commitment but that really was just spin. If PA hadn't commited to bind CDI to those sanctions then the Northern war would have started two weeks before. JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.19 20:33:00 -
[49] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 19/08/2004 20:42:41 Reikoku have an excellent history section on their forum Here with accounts of their early period and development into the corp they are today. Jericho Fraction have a historical introduction on our new web site Here Hope this helps. PS I missed this one earlier from my own account but this was the interview I gave for the Instellar News Service. Here JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine |
Posted - 2004.08.19 20:33:00 -
[50] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 19/08/2004 20:42:41 Reikoku have an excellent history section on their forum Here with accounts of their early period and development into the corp they are today. Jericho Fraction have a historical introduction on our new web site Here Hope this helps. PS I missed this one earlier from my own account but this was the interview I gave for the Instellar News Service. Here JF Public Forum |
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction |
Posted - 2004.08.19 20:33:00 -
[51] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 19/08/2004 20:42:41 Reikoku have an excellent history section on their forum Here with accounts of their early period and development into the corp they are today. Jericho Fraction have a historical introduction on our new web site Here Hope this helps. PS I missed this one earlier from my own account but this was the interview I gave for the Instellar News Service. Here JF Public Forum |
Originally by: Theious
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